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Post by 152bobby on Jul 23, 2018 15:38:47 GMT
So yesterday got a call from my in tears daughter, she lost the brakes in her car and had to come round a roundabout with no brakes and stop using the hand brake, not bad for a 18 year old.
This happened about 10 mins from home, so I was there in 5 minutes !!!
She said she pressed the brake pedal on her manual car and the pedal went all the way to the floor and nothing happened.
When I got there and pressed the brake pedal, it did indeed go all the way to the floor.
I called the AA out, by the time he pumped the pedal, it seemed to work, he also test drove it and I drove it to a garage with him following me, the brakes were ok, but something vdid not feel right.
His diagnosis was there is air in the system, he and I could not find any noticeable leaks and brake level was fine, as I check this and everything else every week including a test drive.
He also said there was some noise coming from the servo unit when I was pumping the brakes.
So it's in the garage and I called earlier today for a update, they had not had time to look at it, but driving it from inside the garage to outside, it seemed fine !!!
I said, did you look at the detailed feedback the AA guy left with your colleague yesterday !!!
Either way, if the garage says they "seem" fine, my daughter is not going near it.
I said a full brake system inspection is required on a ramp, with all wheels off etc.
If the outcome is they cannot find anything wrong, I'll find a brake specialist to deal with it.
If this fault cannot be found or replicated, I'd rather write the car off rather than let my daughter drive it or sell it to some poor unsuspecting person ,!!
Anyway, I'll wait for the garage to call me back, I just felt I had to share this with you guys !!!
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Post by Paulus17 on Jul 23, 2018 15:45:13 GMT
My gawd that must have been frightening but well done for keeping her cool in such a situation.
How old is the car.
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Post by anchorman on Jul 23, 2018 15:46:37 GMT
I’ve had this before but not for a long time. Its the seals in the master cylinder - it needs changing. The noise from the servo when pumping the brake is normal.
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Post by 152bobby on Jul 23, 2018 15:57:58 GMT
It's a 2003, it was and is her first car since passing her test and only uses it when back at home from Uni.
I bought it because it had one owner and full Ford Service History and 60k on the clock, so it's not a banger and I have had a few things done to it since then...proper tyres all round, new suspension springs all round, new brakes all round, brakes were done over a year ago, so not connected.
The AA guy mentioned the seals and said they probably need replaced or maybe the servo need replaced.
Hopefully the garage will come up with such suggestions !!!
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Post by 152bobby on Jul 23, 2018 16:33:57 GMT
Garage just called and they can find nothing wrong. They said they have treated this as a major issue because of safety, but they tried everything and found nothing.
So plan B is collect it tomorrow and take it to another garage for a second opinion.
This is the one time I wished I got the call from the garage and they actually found something wrong !!
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Post by jasehutch on Jul 23, 2018 18:08:24 GMT
If Don hadn't already answered I'd have said maybe the brake fluid had boiled as I had this on a Transit van and once cooled, all was back to normal.
All that was required was a long overdue change of brake fluid.
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Post by 152bobby on Jul 23, 2018 18:10:16 GMT
I'm adding all this to my list, thanks.
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Post by unclebob on Jul 23, 2018 19:50:02 GMT
Reading your first post I would have gone for master cylinder (Don already confirmed👍🏻 ) if another garage finds nothing get them to put a new one on anyway and bleed out all the brakes ... peace of mind with your daughter driving it 👍🏻
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Post by 152bobby on Jul 23, 2018 19:52:03 GMT
That's exactly my plan, got to be done if they don't find the culprit elsewhere.
Thanks
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Post by phaeton on Jul 23, 2018 21:50:08 GMT
Also whilst it's on the ramps ask them to look at the seatbelt mounting, they are usually on a 2003 Ka coming away from what's left of the sills.
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Post by anchorman on Jul 24, 2018 5:55:45 GMT
There is no culprit elsewhere. You can’t have air one minute and not the next. If air gets in it doesn’t bleed itself. It can’t boil the fluid because it’s got single piston calipers where the fluid is kept well away from the brake. If you had it hot enough to do that she wouldn’t be able to see for smoke and the discs would be blue.
The seals in the master cylinder can become mis shaped where instead of being forced out to form a seal, they get forced in. The next time you press they go out again. You can sometimes get it to fail by pressing it quickly. You could re seal it but the bore will have some wear and in the scheme of things, they cost very little. The labour will be the biggest part because it all has to be bled but that’s a good thing anyway, had it have been done every 2 years it probably wouldn’t cause a problem.
I don’t know what you are expecting to find out by keep taking it to other garages. You can work it out for yourself. What can cause the brake pedal to go to the floor once and then cure itself? I’ve come across it before and I’ve specialised in brakes for many years. If one of these garage opinions tells you it was air like the AA man will you settle for having them bled? I can assure you it will happen again and she might not be so lucky next time.
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Post by bothwellbuyer on Jul 24, 2018 12:18:28 GMT
I had a big old Volvo estate years ago which had similar problems with the brakes... the garage who sold it to me refused to take any action so I traded it in...for a Citroen BX estate brand new which got stolen and almost wrecked but Arnie Clarks mates said they could fix it and failed.... sold it to them while it lay in bits on their workshop floor.
Only brake problem I have now is with the Green Goddess but thats why it has 2 tone horns, flashing blue lights and is built like a tank (a water tank).....one has to use predictive driving looking at the road 3 miles ahead to start the braking!
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Post by 152bobby on Jul 26, 2018 14:48:20 GMT
Collected from second garage today, master cylinder replaced, apparently hard to source and had to get it direct from Ford.
So hopefully restored my daughter's faith in her wee Ford KA and I can put my taxi sign away again.
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Post by davrav on Jul 26, 2018 15:53:27 GMT
Good news Bobby :TU:
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Post by three5 on Jul 27, 2018 7:14:52 GMT
There is no culprit elsewhere. You can’t have air one minute and not the next. If air gets in it doesn’t bleed itself. It can’t boil the fluid because it’s got single piston calipers where the fluid is kept well away from the brake. If you had it hot enough to do that she wouldn’t be able to see for smoke and the discs would be blue. The seals in the master cylinder can become mis shaped where instead of being forced out to form a seal, they get forced in. The next time you press they go out again. You can sometimes get it to fail by pressing it quickly. You could re seal it but the bore will have some wear and in the scheme of things, they cost very little. The labour will be the biggest part because it all has to be bled but that’s a good thing anyway, had it have been done every 2 years it probably wouldn’t cause a problem. I don’t know what you are expecting to find out by keep taking it to other garages. You can work it out for yourself. What can cause the brake pedal to go to the floor once and then cure itself? I’ve come across it before and I’ve specialised in brakes for many years. If one of these garage opinions tells you it was air like the AA man will you settle for having them bled? I can assure you it will happen again and she might not be so lucky next time. Hi Don, could the fact that car was getting very little use ( owner at uni? ) be a contributory factor? Memo to self: I should change my brake fluid again this summer! I seem to remember a neighbour of mine who had a Ka on the mobility scheme having the same problem with the brakes on hers.
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