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Post by philip42h on Oct 2, 2024 8:41:29 GMT
I've done something stupid - the giveaway is in the title - and last Monday ordered a bZ4X ... I fancy an EV, though I'm not entirely sure why, and have been looking at the available options for some time now. My daily / annual mileage is low so that I will be able to do 90% of my journeys on a single overnight charge at home. Occasional longer journeys and 'road trips' will be more of an adventure but we have the wife's C-HR hybrid to cover any "range anxiety" issues! The charging infrastructure situation should get better over time. "Stupid" because it is a complete and utter waste of money! The depreciation will be horrendous - but there's "no pockets in a shroud" and if I don't make the leap 'now' then 'when'? The RAV 4.5 is the best car that I have ever owned. It will do 500 miles on a tank of fuel; the AWD system is superb; it's comfortable, easy to drive, reliable and an excellent workhorse. The bZ4X is a nicer place to be, equally easy to drive (the wife says easier), it's decently quick (0-62 < 7 seconds), and, fairly uniquely among EVs, has an AWD system that is design for traction (light off road use) rather than just for speed. Delivery is expected late October / early November but we shall wait and see ...  |
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Post by davrav on Oct 2, 2024 8:53:04 GMT
Good for you Philip. Scratch that itch  |
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Post by Paulus17 on Oct 2, 2024 12:21:04 GMT
Strangely enough our daughter mentioned this car last night as she's thinking of going all leccy as she only does short trips during the day for her business so an all leccy car does seem ideal.
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Post by charliefarlie on Oct 2, 2024 14:05:44 GMT
Congratulations health to enjoy ! Your absolutely right there’s no pockets in a shroud so treat yourself and have what you want . Nice car by all accounts 🤙🤙🤙🤙
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Post by unclebob on Oct 2, 2024 15:36:29 GMT
I gave up long ago justifying the cars I currently have on the drive …..if you’ve done you homework then go for it and enjoy the bZ4X 👍🏻👍🏻
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Post by jasehutch on Oct 2, 2024 18:01:20 GMT
They are a lovely looking car Philip 🚗, too big for my needs though
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Post by charliefarlie on Oct 2, 2024 19:33:43 GMT
Just had a look at the BZ4X … If I’m honest I thought it was a Lexus so surprised to see it’s wearing the Toyota badge. I thought also it was a hybrid so wrong again it’s fully electric. A very impressive futuristic car that’s for sure. Good range also….
My Son and Daughter both have full electric cars, Son has the twin motor Tesla which mega fast and has a good range. Luxury in every area. He doesn’t do a lot of miles and he absolutely loves the car, I think it’s very impressive because of the comfort sheer speed and contrary to what some say extremely good build quality. All in all it’s one hell of a car..
Daughter had a VW ID4 it’s a company car. It looks awkward to me. It has a decent range but nothing like VW claim and nothing like my Sons car. It’s adequate rather than luxurious. It’s build quality is ok no more than that…. Performance is ok for what it is. Daughter does big miles so range anxiety always in the background… She absolutely hates the car. The worry when she has to do long journeys and finding a fast charger spoils the car fir her. It is of course a business tool nothing more. I too ….. Well I don’t hate it but it does nothing for me at all.
The BZ4X looks very good. Cool even with its futuristic looks. I look forward to hearing Phillips reports when he gets the car. It’s a Toyota so should be excellent 👍👍👍
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Post by philip42h on Oct 2, 2024 20:23:19 GMT
With a Lexus frock on it's called the RZ ... |
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Post by philip42h on Oct 3, 2024 8:35:22 GMT
The 'thing' about an EV is charging and range ... With an ICE (or hybrid) we know that we can fill the tank with fuel and drive for 500 miles or so before having to refuel at any one of a myriad of filling stations. You fill up, flash your credit card and you are on your way in 5 minutes or so. The world of EVs is rather different but to start with the one positive - you can fill up at home ... I have taken advantage of the current Toyota offer of a 'free' HomeCharge unit to be installed by Hive / British Gas. This is a reasonable smart 7.4 kW AC charger that supposedly links with the My Toyota App to allow me to schedule charge sessions. The word on the street (OK, the interweb) is that Hive simply don't have sufficient trained engineers to satisfy the installation demand. And when I 'joked' with the salesman that it might be July or August before it was installed, he simply agreed. So, I'm faced with the prospect of having an EV for six months or so before I can get a standard EV charger installed! Fortunately, the car will live in the garage (it fits!) and the garage is equipped with 13A sockets so that I can plug-in a so called 'granny' charger and charge the car at 10A / 2.3 kW / 6 mph - i.e. I will gain around 6 miles of range for every hour that it is plugged-in and charging. Cheaper, off-peak, electricity is typically available for 5 hours a night - between midnight and 5:00 am. If I were to charge with off-pear power 300 nights of the year (say) that would give me 9,000 miles worth of range - I'm currently running at 5,000 - 6,000 miles a year so that's OK as it stands. Once I get a 7.4 kW charger installed that would go up to 27,000 miles worth of range; if I stick with the 2.3 kW charger for 12 hours a night I'd get 21,600 miles worth of range. So, as long as I remember to plug the thing in overnight charging from home shouldn't be a problem and, with a little bit of planning, will cover all my day trips. (With the 2.3 kW charger it would take around 33 hours to fully charge the battery from 'empty' - so I'd need 48 hours, say, notice before a 200+ mile road trip ...) It will be cheaper to run than the RAV4 but not by as much as some EV aficionados would have us believe. Tank by tank the RAV4 has cost me between 12p per mile and over 20p per mile in petrol alone depending on the price of fuel, the time of year, how I've been driving and the journeys that I have been on. A reasonable average might be around 16p per mile. The efficiency of an EV is even more dependent upon the weather and journey type but realistically should be somewhere between 2.5 and 4.0 miles per kWh - I'll take a working average of 3 miles per kWh (the demonstrator was showing 3.5). At present, the SVT is around 24p / kWh so I would be looking at around 8p per mile if I just plug-in and run. I'll need to research the currently available EV tariffs to see what sensible off-peak deal I can get but I suspect that I should be able to get down to around 5p per mile from a home charge in due course. Which is perfectly reasonable as an expense but comes nowhere close to justifying the cost of switching to EV. At present I don't actually know how much additional work will be required before Hive can install the charger where I want, nor whether there is capacity for the additional 7.4 kW but I am hopeful that it won't be an issue. As I understand, the smart features of the charger rely on it being connected to the Internet via either Wi-Fi or 4G - which will be the next challenge since there is currently no usable Wi-Fi or 4G signal in the garage. Where would life be without a challenge or two? |
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Post by charliefarlie on Oct 3, 2024 17:47:05 GMT
The 'thing' about an EV is charging and range ... With an ICE (or hybrid) we know that we can fill the tank with fuel and drive for 500 miles or so before having to refuel at any one of a myriad of filling stations. You fill up, flash your credit card and you are on your way in 5 minutes or so. The world of EVs is rather different but to start with the one positive - you can fill up at home ... I have taken advantage of the current Toyota offer of a 'free' HomeCharge unit to be installed by Hive / British Gas. This is a reasonable smart 7.4 kW AC charger that supposedly links with the My Toyota App to allow me to schedule charge sessions. The word on the street (OK, the interweb) is that Hive simply don't have sufficient trained engineers to satisfy the installation demand. And when I 'joked' with the salesman that it might be July or August before it was installed, he simply agreed. So, I'm faced with the prospect of having an EV for six months or so before I can get a standard EV charger installed! Fortunately, the car will live in the garage (it fits!) and the garage is equipped with 13A sockets so that I can plug-in a so called 'granny' charger and charge the car at 10A / 2.3 kW / 6 mph - i.e. I will gain around 6 miles of range for every hour that it is plugged-in and charging. Cheaper, off-peak, electricity is typically available for 5 hours a night - between midnight and 5:00 am. If I were to charge with off-pear power 300 nights of the year (say) that would give me 9,000 miles worth of range - I'm currently running at 5,000 - 6,000 miles a year so that's OK as it stands. Once I get a 7.4 kW charger installed that would go up to 27,000 miles worth of range; if I stick with the 2.3 kW charger for 12 hours a night I'd get 21,600 miles worth of range. So, as long as I remember to plug the thing in overnight charging from home shouldn't be a problem and, with a little bit of planning, will cover all my day trips. (With the 2.3 kW charger it would take around 33 hours to fully charge the battery from 'empty' - so I'd need 48 hours, say, notice before a 200+ mile road trip ...) It will be cheaper to run than the RAV4 but not by as much as some EV aficionados would have us believe. Tank by tank the RAV4 has cost me between 12p per mile and over 20p per mile in petrol alone depending on the price of fuel, the time of year, how I've been driving and the journeys that I have been on. A reasonable average might be around 16p per mile. The efficiency of an EV is even more dependent upon the weather and journey type but realistically should be somewhere between 2.5 and 4.0 miles per kWh - I'll take a working average of 3 miles per kWh (the demonstrator was showing 3.5). At present, the SVT is around 24p / kWh so I would be looking at around 8p per mile if I just plug-in and run. I'll need to research the currently available EV tariffs to see what sensible off-peak deal I can get but I suspect that I should be able to get down to around 5p per mile from a home charge in due course. Which is perfectly reasonable as an expense but comes nowhere close to justifying the cost of switching to EV. At present I don't actually know how much additional work will be required before Hive can install the charger where I want, nor whether there is capacity for the additional 7.4 kW but I am hopeful that it won't be an issue. As I understand, the smart features of the charger rely on it being connected to the Internet via either Wi-Fi or 4G - which will be the next challenge since there is currently no usable Wi-Fi or 4G signal in the garage. Where would life be without a challenge or two? Daughters car was supplied by Octopus energy and they supplied and fitted the charger at her address, It charges at off peak during the night. Good package but her problem is she can easily exceed the cars range in a day and does so on average 2 sometimes 3 times in a week, So she has an App that can not only tell her where the fast chargers are but if they’re in use and if there’s a vacant one. Seems good until she arrives for a 30 minute charge and the chargers are out of order turned off or all busy, so having driven for hours then had her working day to complete then have the messing around trying to get a charge, That’s range anxiety eh…. Her next car definitely won’t be electric, Son runs his own limited company, He’s an accountant so knows every trick in the book when it comes to vehicle purchase. His office is close to home and he has a rapid charger at his house. His journeys are short so no range anxiety it’s not even a tiny consideration… His next car will definitely be electric, All of the inducements and favourable VED etc etc come to an end next year. Electric cars are expensive. Take away the sweeteners and sales may fall. Obviously the governments aren’t that bothered if we drive electric or ICE so long as they can continue to fleece the driver. Different strokes for different folks 👍 |
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Post by philip42h on Oct 3, 2024 18:42:47 GMT
The 'thing' about an EV is charging and range ... With an ICE (or hybrid) we know that we can fill the tank with fuel and drive for 500 miles or so before having to refuel at any one of a myriad of filling stations. You fill up, flash your credit card and you are on your way in 5 minutes or so. The world of EVs is rather different but to start with the one positive - you can fill up at home ... I have taken advantage of the current Toyota offer of a 'free' HomeCharge unit to be installed by Hive / British Gas. This is a reasonable smart 7.4 kW AC charger that supposedly links with the My Toyota App to allow me to schedule charge sessions. The word on the street (OK, the interweb) is that Hive simply don't have sufficient trained engineers to satisfy the installation demand. And when I 'joked' with the salesman that it might be July or August before it was installed, he simply agreed. So, I'm faced with the prospect of having an EV for six months or so before I can get a standard EV charger installed! Fortunately, the car will live in the garage (it fits!) and the garage is equipped with 13A sockets so that I can plug-in a so called 'granny' charger and charge the car at 10A / 2.3 kW / 6 mph - i.e. I will gain around 6 miles of range for every hour that it is plugged-in and charging. Cheaper, off-peak, electricity is typically available for 5 hours a night - between midnight and 5:00 am. If I were to charge with off-pear power 300 nights of the year (say) that would give me 9,000 miles worth of range - I'm currently running at 5,000 - 6,000 miles a year so that's OK as it stands. Once I get a 7.4 kW charger installed that would go up to 27,000 miles worth of range; if I stick with the 2.3 kW charger for 12 hours a night I'd get 21,600 miles worth of range. So, as long as I remember to plug the thing in overnight charging from home shouldn't be a problem and, with a little bit of planning, will cover all my day trips. (With the 2.3 kW charger it would take around 33 hours to fully charge the battery from 'empty' - so I'd need 48 hours, say, notice before a 200+ mile road trip ...) It will be cheaper to run than the RAV4 but not by as much as some EV aficionados would have us believe. Tank by tank the RAV4 has cost me between 12p per mile and over 20p per mile in petrol alone depending on the price of fuel, the time of year, how I've been driving and the journeys that I have been on. A reasonable average might be around 16p per mile. The efficiency of an EV is even more dependent upon the weather and journey type but realistically should be somewhere between 2.5 and 4.0 miles per kWh - I'll take a working average of 3 miles per kWh (the demonstrator was showing 3.5). At present, the SVT is around 24p / kWh so I would be looking at around 8p per mile if I just plug-in and run. I'll need to research the currently available EV tariffs to see what sensible off-peak deal I can get but I suspect that I should be able to get down to around 5p per mile from a home charge in due course. Which is perfectly reasonable as an expense but comes nowhere close to justifying the cost of switching to EV. At present I don't actually know how much additional work will be required before Hive can install the charger where I want, nor whether there is capacity for the additional 7.4 kW but I am hopeful that it won't be an issue. As I understand, the smart features of the charger rely on it being connected to the Internet via either Wi-Fi or 4G - which will be the next challenge since there is currently no usable Wi-Fi or 4G signal in the garage. Where would life be without a challenge or two? Daughters car was supplied by Octopus energy and they supplied and fitted the charger at her address, It charges at off peak during the night. Good package but her problem is she can easily exceed the cars range in a day and does so on average 2 sometimes 3 times in a week, So she has an App that can not only tell her where the fast chargers are but if they’re in use and if there’s a vacant one. Seems good until she arrives for a 30 minute charge and the chargers are out of order turned off or all busy, so having driven for hours then had her working day to complete then have the messing around trying to get a charge, That’s range anxiety eh…. Her next car definitely won’t be electric, Son runs his own limited company, He’s an accountant so knows every trick in the book when it comes to vehicle purchase. His office is close to home and he has a rapid charger at his house. His journeys are short so no range anxiety it’s not even a tiny consideration… His next car will definitely be electric, All of the inducements and favourable VED etc etc come to an end next year. Electric cars are expensive. Take away the sweeteners and sales may fall. Obviously the governments aren’t that bothered if we drive electric or ICE so long as they can continue to fleece the driver. Different strokes for different folks 👍 For your daughter, can I enquire which car and which App she uses ... ? 'Cos that's the 'challenge' I want to address next ... If I were still doing up to 30k miles per year on business I wouldn't dream of running an EV. But I'm retired, most of my journeys are short day trips that fall easily within the range of the bZ4X (so no range anxiety there). And if I'm feeling adventurous we can plan a longer trip in the bZ4X; if we're not we can take the C-HR hybrid. We can have as much or as little 'fun' as we like. But, the key to longer EV journeys lies with choosing the right charging networks and having the right Apps so that you can pay (at a not wholly unreasonable rate) when you get there. The charging infrastructure situation is way, way better than it was but we are still a long way from being able to drop in and fill up anywhere we want. So my next bit of research is to work out who to sign-up with and plan how to visit family etc. who live further away ... |
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Post by charliefarlie on Oct 3, 2024 19:37:44 GMT
Daughters car was supplied by Octopus energy and they supplied and fitted the charger at her address, It charges at off peak during the night. Good package but her problem is she can easily exceed the cars range in a day and does so on average 2 sometimes 3 times in a week, So she has an App that can not only tell her where the fast chargers are but if they’re in use and if there’s a vacant one. Seems good until she arrives for a 30 minute charge and the chargers are out of order turned off or all busy, so having driven for hours then had her working day to complete then have the messing around trying to get a charge, That’s range anxiety eh…. Her next car definitely won’t be electric, Son runs his own limited company, He’s an accountant so knows every trick in the book when it comes to vehicle purchase. His office is close to home and he has a rapid charger at his house. His journeys are short so no range anxiety it’s not even a tiny consideration… His next car will definitely be electric, All of the inducements and favourable VED etc etc come to an end next year. Electric cars are expensive. Take away the sweeteners and sales may fall. Obviously the governments aren’t that bothered if we drive electric or ICE so long as they can continue to fleece the driver. Different strokes for different folks 👍 For your daughter, can I enquire which car and which App she uses ... ? 'Cos that's the 'challenge' I want to address next ... If I were still doing up to 30k miles per year on business I wouldn't dream of running an EV. But I'm retired, most of my journeys are short day trips that fall easily within the range of the bZ4X (so no range anxiety there). And if I'm feeling adventurous we can plan a longer trip in the bZ4X; if we're not we can take the C-HR hybrid. We can have as much or as little 'fun' as we like. But, the key to longer EV journeys lies with choosing the right charging networks and having the right Apps so that you can pay (at a not wholly unreasonable rate) when you get there. The charging infrastructure situation is way, way better than it was but we are still a long way from being able to drop in and fill up anywhere we want. So my next bit of research is to work out who to sign-up with and plan how to visit family etc. who live further away ... Her car is a VW ID4 .It’s about a year old now. . The App i don’t know Phillip but I will ask. I know she used more than one and used one when we were in Wells with her a few months ago. As you know Apps and stuff like that are alien to me. |
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Post by firemac on Oct 7, 2024 8:50:05 GMT
I reckon that’s a good choice, Philip. IMHO the BZ4X is probably the best looking EV around at the moment and with Toyota’s reliability and build quality, is no-brainer. Personally I just don’t like EVs and can’t see myself ever having one, even though it would probably work well given our now much-reduced mileage (our 2020 4.5 hasn’t hit 25K miles yet). Maybe a PHEV eventually but I reckon I’ll always have an ICE of some kind. Eventually we’ll all be forced down the EV route but fortunately I don’t think I’ll be around to see it 😂.
Anyway, good health to enjoy your new car, Philip. I’m sure it’ll be great!👍😊
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Post by clarki on Oct 8, 2024 19:44:19 GMT
Great choice 👍
I love EVs for the daily/work grind, brilliant. As long as you don’t have to rely on the public charge network, hopeless.
The cost savings/tax benefits for the self employed are still huge. And the sheer speed at which they can accelerate always puts a smile on your face 😀
Our Q4 etron goes back on Friday, 2 year lease, it’s been superb. Being replaced by EX30.
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Post by philip42h on Oct 9, 2024 9:13:54 GMT
Great choice 👍 I love EVs for the daily/work grind, brilliant. As long as you don’t have to rely on the public charge network, hopeless. The cost savings/tax benefits for the self employed are still huge. And the sheer speed at which they can accelerate always puts a smile on your face 😀 Our Q4 etron goes back on Friday, 2 year lease, it’s been superb. Being replaced by EX30. I was very interested in the Volvo EX30 until I took one for a test drive. The AWD performance is just bonkers; it's a nice size and has good range. But they've positioned all the information and controls onto a centrally mounted tablet and crammed it all in using small print that I just couldn't read (varifocals). And the salesman was an imbecile ... I'm also very taken with the Kia EV3 but it's only FWD this year. There's the promise of an AWD EV3 GT "next year" which might be interesting - but again I suspect that it will have stupid performance rather than simply improved traction. And I'd got bored of watching and waiting. My local Toyota dealership gets around 7 out of 10 - a known quantity with adequate performance. The salesman simply gave me the keys and asked me to have the car back before the sales manager needed to go home at the end of the day - twice. The current deal is quite attractive (compared to list price and no offers!) So ... |
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