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Post by davidwilson on Mar 5, 2018 15:27:40 GMT
The Cross Climates seem very vert expensive in what little research I have done thus far. Look at Charlies Faves, the Vredestein Quatrac thingys........seem a lot better value for similar use. Really? What are the prices Kev? To be honest with one small patch of rubber on each of the 4 tyres being the only contact between my car and the road I would "bite the bullet" and pay a premium. Charlie's tyres may be as good but I have no experience of using them. I don't even know if the Cross Climates fit the 4.3 RAV but they are the best tyres I have tried. My bill was: 225/65 R17 106V CrossClimate XL All Season 4 Tyres £579.96 Mobile Fitting FREE I could probably have got them a bit cheaper but £145 each seems a fair price fully fitted. I have paid a lot more in the past for tyres! |
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Post by bigkev on Mar 6, 2018 9:12:53 GMT
I suffer dreadfully from LTD Syndrome, David.....Long Time Dead, so have a healthy disrespect for a few quid here or there......but when I can buy Vredesteins for £113.00 from That Belgium, free delivery but cannae seem to find them Michelins under aboot £150.00+, both NOT fitted naturally, that becomes the difference between buying 4 and getting a spare wan for free, ken.....?
Actual mileage from either tyre does not enter the equation due to the daft low miles I will now be doing.
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Post by davidwilson on Mar 6, 2018 9:23:42 GMT
I suffer dreadfully from LTD Syndrome, David.....Long Time Dead, so have a healthy disrespect for a few quid here or there......but when I can buy Vredesteins for £113.00 from That Belgium, free delivery but cannae seem to find them Michelins under aboot £150.00+, both NOT fitted naturally, that becomes the difference between buying 4 and getting a spare wan for free, ken.....? Actual mileage from either tyre does not enter the equation due to the daft low miles I will now be doing. It’s personal choice at the end of the day. I know I considered a few makes and read the reviews before committing to Michelin Cross Climates and I would definitely do so again. The Vredestein tyres may be equally good but I have not tried them. |
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Post by philip42h on Mar 6, 2018 10:01:52 GMT
I suffer dreadfully from LTD Syndrome, David.....Long Time Dead, so have a healthy disrespect for a few quid here or there......but when I can buy Vredesteins for £113.00 from That Belgium, free delivery but cannae seem to find them Michelins under aboot £150.00+, both NOT fitted naturally, that becomes the difference between buying 4 and getting a spare wan for free, ken.....? Actual mileage from either tyre does not enter the equation due to the daft low miles I will now be doing. Cross Climates in my (our?) size 235/55 R18 were introduced only last year and there still seems to be limited availability in the UK - the national tyre shops and Black Circles still deny that this size exists - but the best prices that I have found are from mytyres (£143.10) and tyreleader (£131.82). At those prices, on the LTD principle, I wouldn't think the price difference mattered a jot if one were to favour the Michelins. We have Cross Climates on the wife's car and are very happy with them, but I'd still be tempted by the Nokian Weatherproof for the RAV as they are rated the quietest and grippiest of the three (and I really do want cold weather tyre type performance from the RAV in winter). As always, each to his/her own ...  |
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Post by Hoovie on Mar 6, 2018 11:13:02 GMT
I suffer dreadfully from LTD Syndrome, David.....Long Time Dead, so have a healthy disrespect for a few quid here or there......but when I can buy Vredesteins for £113.00 from That Belgium, free delivery but cannae seem to find them Michelins under aboot £150.00+, both NOT fitted naturally, that becomes the difference between buying 4 and getting a spare wan for free, ken.....? Actual mileage from either tyre does not enter the equation due to the daft low miles I will now be doing. Now ... Daft Low miles means the tyres will have aged out long before worn out? Vredesteins for £113 - Cross-Climates for £150 - save £37 a corner? Will your dedicated Winter Tyres have cost under £37 (inc fitting?) This is where my choice of Cross-Climates came into play ... I could dump the dedicated Winter Tyres and just have 4 tyres instead of 8, and the 4 tyres would suit the season all year round. (The Vredesteins are an all-season tyre by compromising on all seasons; The Cross-Climates are adaptive to all seasons by virtue of their construction). No doubt the last sentence will not be agreed by all, but it is the case. If you drive in conditions that absolutely demand winter tyres, then I doubt you would chose ANY all-season tyre, either Vredesteins OR Cross-Climates. |
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Post by davidwilson on Mar 6, 2018 11:43:44 GMT
For my 17” wheels the Cross Climates are now £138 fully fitted and old rubber disposed. That’s from tyres on the drive that I have used before. They don’t do the Vredestein tyres. I also looked at Goodyear all season tyres. To be honest even all season tyres are probably overkill for me because the winters are mild in Worcestershire and I would avoid travel in bad conditions if possible. I am mindful that downhill a biggish 4WD will still slide as much as a FWD. But having 4WD is great for returning home up a steep untreated road!
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Post by Hoovie on Mar 6, 2018 11:56:30 GMT
For my 17” wheels the Cross Climates are now £138 fully fitted and old rubber disposed. That’s from tyres on the drive that I have used before. They don’t do the Vredestein tyres. I also looked at Goodyear all season tyres. To be honest even all season tyres are probably overkill for me because the winters are mild in Worcestershire and I would avoid travel in bad conditions if possible. I am mindful that downhill a biggish 4WD will still slide as much as a FWD. But having 4WD is great for returning home up a steep untreated road! The key thing about the rubber used in Winter Tyres (and something that the Cross-Climates also feature) is how they work at lower (< 6 Celcius), not just how well they work in ice and slush. So in a Country like the UK where the Winter temps are below 6C, you will benefit from Winter Tyres no matter if it not icy conditions. Where I live, the temps sadly below 6C for it seems half the year or more at sometime during the day, and the last few months below 6C all the time, even though the roads are rarely icy. |
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Post by philip42h on Mar 6, 2018 12:28:11 GMT
For my 17” wheels the Cross Climates are now £138 fully fitted and old rubber disposed. That’s from tyres on the drive that I have used before. They don’t do the Vredestein tyres. I also looked at Goodyear all season tyres. To be honest even all season tyres are probably overkill for me because the winters are mild in Worcestershire and I would avoid travel in bad conditions if possible. I am mindful that downhill a biggish 4WD will still slide as much as a FWD. But having 4WD is great for returning home up a steep untreated road! The key thing about the rubber used in Winter Tyres ( and something that the Cross-Climates also feature) is how they work at lower (< 6 Celcius), not just how well they work in ice and slush. So in a Country like the UK where the Winter temps are below 6C, you will benefit from Winter Tyres no matter if it not icy conditions. Where I live, the temps sadly below 6C for it seems half the year or more at sometime during the day, and the last few months below 6C all the time, even though the roads are rarely icy. I'm not sure that the above statement (the bit I've highlighted in red) is entirely accurate. Winter tyres certainly used cold-weather compounds and work better (than summer tyres) at temperatures below 6/7 degrees C. Michelin claim that the Cross Climate has "excellence in snow traction, being the first-ever summer tyre to obtain the 3PMSF winter certification for snow usage" (my emphasis) - i.e. I don't believe that they use a cold-weather compound as such. More from Michelin on the subject here. Being from Michelin it is clearly biased towards telling there story but interesting and seemingly reasonably balanced nonetheless. |
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Post by bigkev on Mar 6, 2018 12:30:36 GMT
I suffer dreadfully from LTD Syndrome, David.....Long Time Dead, so have a healthy disrespect for a few quid here or there......but when I can buy Vredesteins for £113.00 from That Belgium, free delivery but cannae seem to find them Michelins under aboot £150.00+, both NOT fitted naturally, that becomes the difference between buying 4 and getting a spare wan for free, ken.....? Actual mileage from either tyre does not enter the equation due to the daft low miles I will now be doing. Now ... Daft Low miles means the tyres will have aged out long before worn out? Vredesteins for £113 - Cross-Climates for £150 - save £37 a corner? Will your dedicated Winter Tyres have cost under £37 (inc fitting?) This is where my choice of Cross-Climates came into play ... I could dump the dedicated Winter Tyres and just have 4 tyres instead of 8, and the 4 tyres would suit the season all year round. (The Vredesteins are an all-season tyre by compromising on all seasons; The Cross-Climates are adaptive to all seasons by virtue of their construction). No doubt the last sentence will not be agreed by all, but it is the case. If you drive in conditions that absolutely demand winter tyres, then I doubt you would chose ANY all-season tyre, either Vredesteins OR Cross-Climates. Point well put, David.......but........this is where my analisticism clicks in........I got the chance of these excellent Pitlane alloys off ye bay, fitted them with Yokohama Wintracs at a total outlay jist under £900.00. I consider them, although aesthetically very pleasing, to border on "winter sacrificials" to save my SR alloys from the ravages of Scotteesh winters, as they are like chicken dentures to get a hold of after being long discontinued. So not scared of a bit of expense per se, but just like the wheels to look as new during our long hot spring and summer seasons. All else apart, Glesga Celtic footed the bill with wife winning £5.5k on their Development Pools.........bliddy smashing.....!! |
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Post by Hoovie on Mar 6, 2018 12:47:22 GMT
The key thing about the rubber used in Winter Tyres ( and something that the Cross-Climates also feature) is how they work at lower (< 6 Celcius), not just how well they work in ice and slush. So in a Country like the UK where the Winter temps are below 6C, you will benefit from Winter Tyres no matter if it not icy conditions. Where I live, the temps sadly below 6C for it seems half the year or more at sometime during the day, and the last few months below 6C all the time, even though the roads are rarely icy. I'm not sure that the above statement (the bit I've highlighted in red) is entirely accurate. Winter tyres certainly used cold-weather compounds and work better (than summer tyres) at temperatures below 6/7 degrees C. Michelin claim that the Cross Climate has "excellence in snow traction, being the first-ever summer tyre to obtain the 3PMSF winter certification for snow usage" (my emphasis) - i.e. I don't believe that they use a cold-weather compound as such. More from Michelin on the subject here. Being from Michelin it is clearly biased towards telling there story but interesting and seemingly reasonably balanced nonetheless. I am sure I read about the adapted compound when I was looking into Cross-Climates prior to their release. A quick google found me this from Black Circles .... www.blackcircles.com/catalogue/michelin/crossclimate/215/55/R16/V/97/f?tyre=33707446"The MICHELIN CrossClimate is made with a new rubber compound - to maximise traction.
High levels of silica are used in the tyre's compound, as with a winter tyre - this compound structure ensures a low rolling resistance and consistant performance in winter conditions."I would guess they took that blurb from Michelin? This is quite an interesting write-up - ATS - Michelin CrossClimate Tyre revolutionises tyre market. ATS have a interest in selling tyres of course, but if it wasn't a Cross-Climate, it would be another tyre, so they have no massive reason to over-egg it. |
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Post by philip42h on Mar 6, 2018 15:23:36 GMT
I'm not sure that the above statement (the bit I've highlighted in red) is entirely accurate. Winter tyres certainly used cold-weather compounds and work better (than summer tyres) at temperatures below 6/7 degrees C. Michelin claim that the Cross Climate has "excellence in snow traction, being the first-ever summer tyre to obtain the 3PMSF winter certification for snow usage" (my emphasis) - i.e. I don't believe that they use a cold-weather compound as such. More from Michelin on the subject here. Being from Michelin it is clearly biased towards telling there story but interesting and seemingly reasonably balanced nonetheless. I am sure I read about the adapted compound when I was looking into Cross-Climates prior to their release. A quick google found me this from Black Circles .... www.blackcircles.com/catalogue/michelin/crossclimate/215/55/R16/V/97/f?tyre=33707446"The MICHELIN CrossClimate is made with a new rubber compound - to maximise traction.
High levels of silica are used in the tyre's compound, as with a winter tyre - this compound structure ensures a low rolling resistance and consistant performance in winter conditions."I would guess they took that blurb from Michelin? This is quite an interesting write-up - ATS - Michelin CrossClimate Tyre revolutionises tyre market. ATS have a interest in selling tyres of course, but if it wasn't a Cross-Climate, it would be another tyre, so they have no massive reason to over-egg it. Indeed, I rather suspect that the ATS write-up was also provided by the Michelin marketing department and I've seen similar elsewhere - not that this would make it untrue. The write-up it includes the paragraph: From which I assume / conclude that: - Summer tyres are best on warm dry roads at temperatures above 7 degrees
- The Michelin CrossClimate is a summer tyre adapted to cope better at lower temperatures and wintry conditions. As such it is pretty much ideal for use in the UK since most of the time, in the southern half of the country at least we enjoy a relatively temperate climate.
- All season / all weather tyres are winter tyres adapted to cope better at warmer temperatures so that you can leave them on all year round.
- Winter tyres are best on cold, wet or icy roads at temperatures below 7 degrees
The published tests seem to show that CrossClimates perform pretty much as well as all season tyres under winter conditions and outperform them in warm dry conditions but beyond that the choice seems moot ... and, maybe, it's just Michelin marketing in an attempt to differentiate themselves from competitor's products in the 'all season' tyre market! |
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Post by Hoovie on Mar 6, 2018 18:01:22 GMT
All I know is the write ups sounded good and made me want to try them :yes: Trying them has made me decide they are the only tyres I want as they feel better then any other Premium Brand tyre I have used, Winter or Summer  |
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Post by phaeton on Mar 7, 2018 11:05:19 GMT
Just looking for tyres myself gone onto Blackcircles & they say the car should have 235/55/18's but I know that is wrong, it has 17's on it, anyone know the standard size, save me a 1/2 mile walk back to the car park, I did think they were 225/65/17 which if you put into a calculator is the same rolling diameter (virtually only 1% out).
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Post by davrav on Mar 7, 2018 11:23:24 GMT
Just looking for tyres myself gone onto Blackcircles & they say the car should have 235/55/18's but I know that is wrong, it has 17's on it, anyone know the standard size, save me a 1/2 mile walk back to the car park, I did think they were 225/65/17 which if you put into a calculator is the same rolling diameter (virtually only 1% out).
225/65 R17 is what the standard wheels on my '08 have :TU: |
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Post by phaeton on Mar 7, 2018 11:28:53 GMT
225/65 R17 is what the standard wheels on my '08 have 
So why should I pay £50 a tyre more?
Always used Toyo on track & kit cars, always been happy with them,
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