betty
Junior Member
Posts: 7
|
Post by betty on Sept 19, 2023 14:57:39 GMT
Afternoon, hoping for some advice. I love my car, BUT last year it started smoking, not a little bit, it billows with no rhyme or reason. I finally found a deisel specialist that said replace the 5th injector. So we did, it smoked some more, then stopped smoking. About 4/5 months went by and it's smoking again. Do 5th injectors fail that quickly? Not loosing oil or coolent, no loss of power, she's a machine, smells like unburnt fule still, happens when she's cold, hot, all revs,generally lower gears, if I can get to third and put my foot down it stops.we love on Exmoor the hills do make her work.
I'm just about to order another 5th injector, as there relatively cheap and hope for the best, unless anyone has another suggestion?
Thank you
|
|
|
|
Post by three5 on Sept 19, 2023 18:28:17 GMT
Afternoon, hoping for some advice. I love my car, BUT last year it started smoking, not a little bit, it billows with no rhyme or reason. I finally found a deisel specialist that said replace the 5th injector. So we did, it smoked some more, then stopped smoking. About 4/5 months went by and it's smoking again. Do 5th injectors fail that quickly? Not loosing oil or coolent, no loss of power, she's a machine, smells like unburnt fule still, happens when she's cold, hot, all revs,generally lower gears, if I can get to third and put my foot down it stops.we love on Exmoor the hills do make her work. I'm just about to order another 5th injector, as there relatively cheap and hope for the best, unless anyone has another suggestion? Thank you Hi Betty and welcome to the forum! Can you give us a bit of information about the use of the car? For instance, do you live in a town where you have to drive fairy slowly and do a lot of stops and starts and short distances ( urban driving )? How often do you do a journey where you get the engine thoroughly warmed up, say one and a half hours+ with speeds of 60 mph? Diesels can really suffer in towns and need a bit of hard work regularly to keep them cleared out. If you do "give it some hard work" for a reasonable distance does it clear the problem?
|
|
|
|
Post by philip42h on Sept 19, 2023 21:00:10 GMT
Afternoon, hoping for some advice. I love my car, BUT last year it started smoking, not a little bit, it billows with no rhyme or reason. I finally found a deisel specialist that said replace the 5th injector. So we did, it smoked some more, then stopped smoking. About 4/5 months went by and it's smoking again. Do 5th injectors fail that quickly? Not loosing oil or coolent, no loss of power, she's a machine, smells like unburnt fule still, happens when she's cold, hot, all revs,generally lower gears, if I can get to third and put my foot down it stops.we love on Exmoor the hills do make her work. I'm just about to order another 5th injector, as there relatively cheap and hope for the best, unless anyone has another suggestion? Thank you Can you let us know which engine you have? And/or which model RAV4? Given that you are talking about a fifth injector I assume that it is a D-CAT? Then, probably, it smells like unburnt fuel because it is unburnt fuel. It's a common symptom but it's rather harder to diagnose the fault ... The emissions control system on the D-CAT captures soot and particulates in the DPNR (Diesel Particulate – NOx Reduction System). Overtime the DPNR fills up with 'crud' and starts to become blocked. So the car periodically supplies extra diesel, via the fifth injector directly into the exhaust system which burns, raising the temperature of the exhaust gases so that it can burn-off the collected 'crud' and, thus, regenerate the DPNR. It should do this only when the engine is operating at temperature. If you regularly do long journeys this should all happen without the driver being aware. If you interrupt the process by stopping the car - the journey isn't quite log enough - you will probably detect a smell like burning rubber ... it hasn't finished regenerating the DPNR. But if the system injects additional fuel before the engine is at temperature, or injects too much fuel, it will pass through the exhaust without being completely burned. That's your white smoke (probably) ... So that's the easy bit - that is probably the explanation of the symptoms, but its doesn't define the fault. It could be: - A faulty fifth injector - probably not since you have already tried that
- One or more faulty sensors - telling the fifth injector to open when the conditions are not correct (i.e. at the wrong time)
- A wiring fault - just a bad connection somewhere in the system
or something else - the list isn't definitive.
|
|
|
|
Post by jasehutch on Sept 20, 2023 5:00:59 GMT
Hello betty and welcome to the club 👍
|
|
|
|
Post by charliefarlie on Sept 20, 2023 8:25:25 GMT
White smoke is usually associated with water. Though I note no coolant being used. Billowing and “ not a little bit “ subset a lot of smoke which is unusual if the 5th injector had kicked in and regeneration is taking place. I had a T180 for a few years and my current Invincible auto both had D cat so had the 5Th injector and I cannot recall ever seeing any smoke of any colour .. No doubt both cars did the regen but never with any noticeable smoke …
It takes the tiniest bit of water to produce one heck of a lot of smoke .
|
|
|
|
Post by philip42h on Sept 20, 2023 9:59:28 GMT
White smoke is usually associated with water. Though I note no coolant being used. Billowing and “ not a little bit “ subset a lot of smoke which is unusual if the 5th injector had kicked in and regeneration is taking place. I had a T180 for a few years and my current Invincible auto both had D cat so had the 5Th injector and I cannot recall ever seeing any smoke of any colour .. No doubt both cars did the regen but never with any noticeable smoke … It takes the tiniest bit of water to produce one heck of a lot of smoke . My SR180 went through occasional phases of 'billowing white smoke' - particularly 'over Christmas' when it was only being used for short journeys in the cold. On the local bypass, coming off the roundabouts, I would lose the car behind in plumes of white smoke ... I always assumed that the smoke was unburnt diesel, and the cause an interrupted regen. Either way, as three5 said above, the cure was a decent run out ... |
|
|
|
Post by three5 on Sept 20, 2023 10:23:32 GMT
White smoke is usually associated with water. Though I note no coolant being used. Billowing and “ not a little bit “ subset a lot of smoke which is unusual if the 5th injector had kicked in and regeneration is taking place. I had a T180 for a few years and my current Invincible auto both had D cat so had the 5Th injector and I cannot recall ever seeing any smoke of any colour .. No doubt both cars did the regen but never with any noticeable smoke … It takes the tiniest bit of water to produce one heck of a lot of smoke . My SR180 went through occasional phases of 'billowing white smoke' - particularly 'over Christmas' when it was only being used for short journeys in the cold. On the local bypass, coming off the roundabouts, I would lose the car behind in plumes of white smoke ... I always assumed that the smoke was unburnt diesel, and the cause an interrupted regen. Either way, as three5 said above, the cure was a decent run out ... What my local diesel specialist referred to as an "Italian decoke" Philip!  They are ideally sited for this work. From their premises at Elland, there is a dual carriageway climbing about a mile and a half up to the M62. 4000 RPM all the way up there and it was as clean as when it came off the production line! I will note that mine was not a D-CAT engine though.
|
|
betty
Junior Member
Posts: 7
|
Post by betty on Sept 20, 2023 10:23:50 GMT
Hello everyone, and th k you for the replys, I think it's the journey distances that mess it up,but a long run dose not cure the problem, that's been tried many times. At least 3 times a month she has a good run out minimum. But generally the journeys are around half an hour over the hills and valleys of Exmoor. We loose sight of the car behind when she smokes, and if we're not going very fast we can dissapear in the cloud too.
I've read so many threads on this issue, and as of yet not found any that have actualy solved it. And I don't want to throw too much money at her,she's a 2.2 d4d engine, mpg is dropping atm, witch did happen before we replaced the 5th last time too 😵💫😵💫
|
|
betty
Junior Member
Posts: 7
|
Post by betty on Sept 20, 2023 10:43:01 GMT
Interestingly tho, I have never pushed her to 4000 revs. Should I give her a shot at that? And for how long? What gear? Give me the perfect set up and I'll do that?
|
|
|
|
Post by three5 on Sept 20, 2023 11:49:33 GMT
Interestingly tho, I have never pushed her to 4000 revs. Should I give her a shot at that? And for how long? What gear? Give me the perfect set up and I'll do that? I'm not sure if it's just the revs Betty, it's more likely to be the long steep hill on a dual carriageway where you're using some HP ( i.e. the engine is well loaded, not just revving. ) Do you have any roads like that near you? The diesel guys checked the oil and put it on their diagnostic machine to check all was OK before the "de-coke" and I would earnestly advise that you give your motor a good check before going through this procedure. My problem was that I did too many short journeys where the engine didn't get fully warmed up. After this problem, each year before the MOT, I'd do a run up the same hill. If I remember correctly, I used 2nd gear to avoid breaking the speed limit.
|
|
|
|
Post by charliefarlie on Sept 20, 2023 12:54:04 GMT
Interestingly tho, I have never pushed her to 4000 revs. Should I give her a shot at that? And for how long? What gear? Give me the perfect set up and I'll do that? My ten year old car has the Dcat because it’s automatic transmission. I’m guessing your car is a late Mk3 auto or earlier manual ? I use my car for mid to long runs as we have another ( petrol ) car so it’s never used for short or start stop trips. Even so whenever I do use it I make sure it gets revved at least once …. The other thing is don’t put cheap diesel in your tank. Either buy premium diesel or put an additive in the tank when you fill up. I use an additive because premium fuels both petrol and diesel are getting silly cost wise now…. |
|
betty
Junior Member
Posts: 7
|
Post by betty on Sept 20, 2023 13:53:38 GMT
She's a mk3 manual, honestly the hills round us are mostly graded hills and she gets slung up and down them alot, we live between porlock hill and countisbury hill if that means anything to anyone. Additive once a month goes in the tank, and really try and avoid cheap fule as I agree I notice a diff when we use it. She's had every service on time, been plugged in, stared at, talked too, at many garages, and they all just say ... give her a blow out, or start changing things. Cos nobody, other than the 5th Injector has any remedy.
We went to a wedding this summer, 3 hours there and 3 hours back 90 percent motorway. 2 days later she gave it a smoke. I've owned her 4 years now. And she's a personality, she's never missed a beat, other than smoking out people behind for the last year. I'm still leaning towards the 5th blocking somehow
|
|
|
|
Post by davrav on Sept 20, 2023 14:10:41 GMT
:welcome: Betty
If you could fill in your vehicle details in your profile that would be helpful to anyone making suggestions and save you repeating them.
One thing to note is that it will take about four or five miles for the engine to get to working temperature, longer in winter temps.
Has anyone suggested cleaning the EGR?
|
|
|
|
Post by three5 on Sept 20, 2023 14:24:39 GMT
She's a mk3 manual, honestly the hills round us are mostly graded hills and she gets slung up and down them alot, we live between porlock hill and countisbury hill if that means anything to anyone. Additive once a month goes in the tank, and really try and avoid cheap fule as I agree I notice a diff when we use it. She's had every service on time, been plugged in, stared at, talked too, at many garages, and they all just say ... give her a blow out, or start changing things. Cos nobody, other than the 5th Injector has any remedy. We went to a wedding this summer, 3 hours there and 3 hours back 90 percent motorway. 2 days later she gave it a smoke. I've owned her 4 years now. And she's a personality, she's never missed a beat, other than smoking out people behind for the last year. I'm still leaning towards the 5th blocking somehow Porlock Hill? that ought to be enough for any diesel. I remember it well! I'm starting to think that the 5th injector is the culprit. You say that you've changed it once already, was this done by Toyota? If it wasn't, did the garage use a genuine part? If it was a Toyota dealer and you've only had the car 4 years, I'd be tempted to go back to them and complain. It should last a lot longer than that! |
|
|
|
Post by charliefarlie on Sept 20, 2023 16:36:29 GMT
 Betty If you could fill in your vehicle details in your profile that would be helpful to anyone making suggestions and save you repeating them. One thing to note is that it will take about four or five miles for the engine to get to working temperature, longer in winter temps. Has anyone suggested cleaning the EGR? Cleaning the EGR and seeing what’s inside is a very good idea… If it’s blocked or really minging it might lead us down another route. I still have the hoover pipe with the narrow pipe set into the end from my T180 days.. 😳😳 |
|
Betty