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Post by anchorman on Mar 8, 2021 9:20:20 GMT
I don’t consider myself as a tree hugger but I am conscious about climate change and just how long we can keep raping the planet. My Mazda had stop start and driving daily into Manchester it would be on and off like a fiddlers elbow. It never caused any problems albeit I never kept them long. I’ve never even remembered to let an engine idle after running it on my RAVs which I did own for more than 3 years and is still off to Portugal every year with my mate. It might be a different story with a sports car where they tended to dry out and carbonise the inside of the oil pipes if the turbo was glowing. There are a wide variety of Transit and Sprinter vans visiting our streets daily. Each one with up to a half million miles and the drivers are half way up somebody’s garden path before the turbo has stopped spinning and they do it literally thousands of times a year with no problem.
As for these stop start devices, it never ceases to amaze me how many owners think that they need to redesign the system by turning it off. The starter, battery and the lubrications of the internal parts have all been taken into account and tested and to my knowledge, never cause any problems and yet we seem better educated than the designers and turn them off. In my trips to the city I sit amongst hundreds of cars all idling away at traffic lights to no good reason other than processing good atmosphere into waste and all the work and research and cost of fitting a system to ease that is turned off at the click of a switch. I don’t get it. What about binning the rest of the emissions system and the cat and the dpf while we’re at it. What about binning those very annoying light polluting headlights while we’re at it? Or we could just accept that these systems are there for a reason and leave them to it.
That’s my take on it. I would remove any method of disabling that stop start system.
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Post by charliefarlie on Mar 8, 2021 10:38:43 GMT
I don’t consider myself as a tree hugger but I am conscious about climate change and just how long we can keep raping the planet. My Mazda had stop start and driving daily into Manchester it would be on and off like a fiddlers elbow. It never caused any problems albeit I never kept them long. I’ve never even remembered to let an engine idle after running it on my RAVs which I did own for more than 3 years and is still off to Portugal every year with my mate. It might be a different story with a sports car where they tended to dry out and carbonise the inside of the oil pipes if the turbo was glowing. There are a wide variety of Transit and Sprinter vans visiting our streets daily. Each one with up to a half million miles and the drivers are half way up somebody’s garden path before the turbo has stopped spinning and they do it literally thousands of times a year with no problem. As for these stop start devices, it never ceases to amaze me how many owners think that they need to redesign the system by turning it off. The starter, battery and the lubrications of the internal parts have all been taken into account and tested and to my knowledge, never cause any problems and yet we seem better educated than the designers and turn them off. In my trips to the city I sit amongst hundreds of cars all idling away at traffic lights to no good reason other than processing good atmosphere into waste and all the work and research and cost of fitting a system to ease that is turned off at the click of a switch. I don’t get it. What about binning the rest of the emissions system and the cat and the dpf while we’re at it. What about binning those very annoying light polluting headlights while we’re at it? Or we could just accept that these systems are there for a reason and leave them to it. That’s my take on it. I would remove any method of disabling that stop start system. If I could remove all the emissions junk from my cars or could have bought them in the first place I would. Those devices have caused more trouble to cars than just about anything. Years ago it was common to have to keep changing plugs and points and have rebores etc etc these days it’s this sensor or that and catylitic or DPF problems.... My mate with the Berlingo van just had a bill of 1200 quid for a new Adblue tank. Cars got better and far better longevity then governments force us into bolting on all manner of junk on them so in effect we’re stepping back. As for stop start I simply don’t like it, I never asked for it but I paid for it in the price of the car. But that doesn't mean I have to use it. Do we actually know these vans don’t suffer from battery or starter problems ? Can’t say I’ve ever studied form as I’ve had no reason too.... Component wear must surely depend on use ? They may or may not upgrade certain components but we pay for them if they do. |
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Post by philip42h on Mar 8, 2021 11:23:53 GMT
I've never had a car with a conventional stop/start system - the diesel RAVs just idle and are ready to go when the driver is - but I can understand how disconcerting it may be if the car 'stalls' every time to come to rest and 'starts again as if by magic' when you need to set off again. But the wife's last two cars, since 2010, have had stop start and she's perfectly used to it and never had a problem with it. Of course, I now have a hybrid - did I mention that? - and the petrol engine cuts out at every opportunity irrespective of whether I'm stopped or not. Performance is always there at the touch of the go pedal ... Standard ICEd cars really belong to the past - with or without stop-start ...  |
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Post by three5 on Mar 8, 2021 14:04:58 GMT
I've never had a car with a conventional stop/start system - the diesel RAVs just idle and are ready to go when the driver is - but I can understand how disconcerting it may be if the car 'stalls' every time to come to rest and 'starts again as if by magic' when you need to set off again. But the wife's last two cars, since 2010, have had stop start and she's perfectly used to it and never had a problem with it. Of course, I now have a hybrid - did I mention that? - and the petrol engine cuts out at every opportunity irrespective of whether I'm stopped or not. Performance is always there at the touch of the go pedal ... Standard ICEd cars really belong to the past - with or without stop-start ... Phillip, the older I get the more worried I am about the world that I'll leave for my grandchildren. To my shame I'm part of the post-war baby boomer generation who believed that with the end of the war they could do what they liked. I've come to realise that the earths resources are not infinite and I've used up rather more than my share. I've got my fingers crossed that the path out of Covid-19 doesn't lead us back onto the path we were following as a society  |
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Post by charliefarlie on Mar 8, 2021 14:45:08 GMT
I've never had a car with a conventional stop/start system - the diesel RAVs just idle and are ready to go when the driver is - but I can understand how disconcerting it may be if the car 'stalls' every time to come to rest and 'starts again as if by magic' when you need to set off again. But the wife's last two cars, since 2010, have had stop start and she's perfectly used to it and never had a problem with it. Of course, I now have a hybrid - did I mention that? - and the petrol engine cuts out at every opportunity irrespective of whether I'm stopped or not. Performance is always there at the touch of the go pedal ... Standard ICEd cars really belong to the past - with or without stop-start ... Phillip, the older I get the more worried I am about the world that I'll leave for my grandchildren. To my shame I'm part of the post-war baby boomer generation who believed that with the end of the war they could do what they liked. I've come to realise that the earths resources are not infinite and I've used up rather more than my share. I've got my fingers crossed that the path out of Covid-19 doesn't lead us back onto the path we were following as a society  To your shame  ? Don’t get that at all..... We couldn’t help when we were borne... As for do as we liked what other way was there given the information at the time What were our choices We just worked bloody hard and got on with it. Once covid is past or we reach somewhere nearing normal every man and his dog will be flying over the globe and hardly any of those will be essential. Holidays for a start. Aeroplanes are one of the biggest polluters by a big margin so those who are made to feel guilty about owning and using their cars or those who preach to us that we’re destroying the planet need too look twice. I love it when I see ZERO emission cars...... There is no such thing. Pollution is produced making and running them. There is no such thing as Zero emission ... A lot of these hybrids burn as much petrol as small cars ... Take a RAV4 and look at how much petrol it burns. Way more than a small 1.0 3 cylinder petrol car of which there are many many. I think the global changes while largely man made could be the changes our earth goes through anyway. The earth had the ice age without influence from man. Im prepared to do my bit. I’m happy to change to hybrid or full electric but for us to be dictated too is crazy when so many countries don’t give a damn and while folk continue to fly over the globe just for fun. We can’t be told what too and what not too do. I bet society will go back to how it was before. Worse if anything. You watch how folk will go barmy booking holidays .... Folk will go back to work even if they could work from home. |
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Post by anchorman on Mar 8, 2021 15:46:20 GMT
I don’t consider myself as a tree hugger but I am conscious about climate change and just how long we can keep raping the planet. My Mazda had stop start and driving daily into Manchester it would be on and off like a fiddlers elbow. It never caused any problems albeit I never kept them long. I’ve never even remembered to let an engine idle after running it on my RAVs which I did own for more than 3 years and is still off to Portugal every year with my mate. It might be a different story with a sports car where they tended to dry out and carbonise the inside of the oil pipes if the turbo was glowing. There are a wide variety of Transit and Sprinter vans visiting our streets daily. Each one with up to a half million miles and the drivers are half way up somebody’s garden path before the turbo has stopped spinning and they do it literally thousands of times a year with no problem. As for these stop start devices, it never ceases to amaze me how many owners think that they need to redesign the system by turning it off. The starter, battery and the lubrications of the internal parts have all been taken into account and tested and to my knowledge, never cause any problems and yet we seem better educated than the designers and turn them off. In my trips to the city I sit amongst hundreds of cars all idling away at traffic lights to no good reason other than processing good atmosphere into waste and all the work and research and cost of fitting a system to ease that is turned off at the click of a switch. I don’t get it. What about binning the rest of the emissions system and the cat and the dpf while we’re at it. What about binning those very annoying light polluting headlights while we’re at it? Or we could just accept that these systems are there for a reason and leave them to it. That’s my take on it. I would remove any method of disabling that stop start system. If I could remove all the emissions junk from my cars or could have bought them in the first place I would. Those devices have caused more trouble to cars than just about anything. Years ago it was common to have to keep changing plugs and points and have rebores etc etc these days it’s this sensor or that and catylitic or DPF problems.... My mate with the Berlingo van just had a bill of 1200 quid for a new Adblue tank. Cars got better and far better longevity then governments force us into bolting on all manner of junk on them so in effect we’re stepping back. As for stop start I simply don’t like it, I never asked for it but I paid for it in the price of the car. But that doesn't mean I have to use it. Do we actually know these vans don’t suffer from battery or starter problems ? Can’t say I’ve ever studied form as I’ve had no reason too.... Component wear must surely depend on use ? They may or may not upgrade certain components but we pay for them if they do. It’s not about how much trouble they cause, it’s about scientists and biologists telling us that if we don’t get serious about burning these heavy fuels then we are heading not just inconvenience of severe weather, species extinction or even a gadget that combats emissions costing us extra money. If we listen to the likes of David Attenborough who mixes with some fairly switched on people, it’s not in the future or just over the horizon, it’s in plain view and it won’t be a question of how we have to tolerate these systems we never asked for, we’ll be walking round with oxygen generators strapped to us in our lifetime and for our kids and their kids, the world is going to be uninhabitable. Chris’s words perfectly describe the way I feel. We’ve probably lived through the period in human history where the most damage has been done, that’s post war up until we started to understand it better - maybe 30 years ago when the hole in the ozone layer was found and everything up until then we were ignorant about it but now we know, we really should be having a bit of consideration about what’s going on around us. I got rid of my lovely Mazda partly because I’m soft as s*** about new cars but partly because I was fed up with warning lights and error messages and lying under a new car draining off overfilled adblue tanks. It’s a good thing that combustion engines will end soon because getting diesel to burn in a responsible way is getting impossible and the limits and the problems associated with doing it will increase several more times before they are eventually outlawed. Now we’ve got other problems about which poor so and so is crawling underground fishing out toxic substances for making batteries and how we’re going to charge them. I’ve worked in a vehicle development environment and all the legislation that drives it but however inconvenient it is, it’s always done to improve a situation and this is the most serious of situations. That’s my opinion. |
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Post by charliefarlie on Mar 8, 2021 17:11:21 GMT
If I could remove all the emissions junk from my cars or could have bought them in the first place I would. Those devices have caused more trouble to cars than just about anything. Years ago it was common to have to keep changing plugs and points and have rebores etc etc these days it’s this sensor or that and catylitic or DPF problems.... My mate with the Berlingo van just had a bill of 1200 quid for a new Adblue tank. Cars got better and far better longevity then governments force us into bolting on all manner of junk on them so in effect we’re stepping back. As for stop start I simply don’t like it, I never asked for it but I paid for it in the price of the car. But that doesn't mean I have to use it. Do we actually know these vans don’t suffer from battery or starter problems ? Can’t say I’ve ever studied form as I’ve had no reason too.... Component wear must surely depend on use ? They may or may not upgrade certain components but we pay for them if they do. It’s not about how much trouble they cause, it’s about scientists and biologists telling us that if we don’t get serious about burning these heavy fuels then we are heading not just inconvenience of severe weather, species extinction or even a gadget that combats emissions costing us extra money. If we listen to the likes of David Attenborough who mixes with some fairly switched on people, it’s not in the future or just over the horizon, it’s in plain view and it won’t be a question of how we have to tolerate these systems we never asked for, we’ll be walking round with oxygen generators strapped to us in our lifetime and for our kids and their kids, the world is going to be uninhabitable. Chris’s words perfectly describe the way I feel. We’ve probably lived through the period in human history where the most damage has been done, that’s post war up until we started to understand it better - maybe 30 years ago when the hole in the ozone layer was found and everything up until then we were ignorant about it but now we know, we really should be having a bit of consideration about what’s going on around us. I got rid of my lovely Mazda partly because I’m soft as s*** about new cars but partly because I was fed up with warning lights and error messages and lying under a new car draining off overfilled adblue tanks. It’s a good thing that combustion engines will end soon because getting diesel to burn in a responsible way is getting impossible and the limits and the problems associated with doing it will increase several more times before they are eventually outlawed. Now we’ve got other problems about which poor so and so is crawling underground fishing out toxic substances for making batteries and how we’re going to charge them. I’ve worked in a vehicle development environment and all the legislation that drives it but however inconvenient it is, it’s always done to improve a situation and this is the most serious of situations. That’s my opinion. I agree Don...... Well most of it.... I don’t feel guilt. In my working life we knew no better, Maybe we could have improved but now we have no choice we have too.... In essence to do any good and fast like the clever scientists say we must then all existing polluting cars must be scrapped now... Not next year or the year after right now. Same with flying that has to stop..... We should immediately sort out insulation on Every dwelling and put mega money into developing boilers that produce Minimal pollution. There is just so much. But my question and trust me I’m not trying to be clever or flippant is is this going to happen anytime soon ? Production of petrol or diesel cars should be stopped immediately not in 9 more years time but I can’t see it happening. Man doesent often react...... Covid has shown us how far king stupid and selfish not to mention pig ignorant a pretty big element of society can be ... And pleasant it is not. |
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Post by davrav on Mar 8, 2021 19:03:48 GMT
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Post by charliefarlie on Mar 8, 2021 19:33:29 GMT
The main problem is unless every country decides to change and then all people in those countries how will things get better ? People don’t care. Look how many break the covid rules despite the fact it could kill them or their family members within days....So something that might kill them in years from now isn’t going to persuade them is it..... |
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Post by davrav on Mar 8, 2021 20:10:36 GMT
Little will change whilst our appetite for 'low cost' Chinesium goods continues.
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Post by charliefarlie on Mar 8, 2021 20:48:55 GMT
Little will change whilst our appetite for 'low cost' Chinesium goods continues. Real change can only come from the leaders of nations ...... So we’re rubber ducked then. Seriously we are. |
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Post by anchorman on Mar 9, 2021 6:52:11 GMT
The main problem is unless every country decides to change and then all people in those countries how will things get better ? People don’t care. Look how many break the covid rules despite the fact it could kill them or their family members within days....So something that might kill them in years from now isn’t going to persuade them is it..... according to Dave’s chart, the world is doing pretty good with the exception of the USA (that might change soon), Russia and China. I know they are big but it’s not as global as I thought. I agree entirely about the pandemic, I’m out there most days with them - don’t get me started ;-) |
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Post by clarki on Mar 9, 2021 18:08:30 GMT
The car that replaces my Yaris will be electric. But the life cycle of an electric car seems far from planet friendly at present!!
Hybrid is old tech now IMO. The worst of both worlds.
Probably best to stick with the great big V8...and turn off the stop start. Certainly the most fun. Are we still allowed to have fun?? 😀
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Post by charliefarlie on Mar 9, 2021 18:31:38 GMT
The car that replaces my Yaris will be electric. But the life cycle of an electric car seems far from planet friendly at present!! Hybrid is old tech now IMO. The worst of both worlds. Probably best to stick with the great big V8...and turn off the stop start. Certainly the most fun. Are we still allowed to have fun?? 😀 Around the forums like Pistonheads enthusiasts are saying find an entertaining petrol car while we can and hang onto it.... Who will want to buy a petrol car or diesel after say 2025..... Electric cars are fast becoming viable as a day to day prospect but not price wise ... That will I imagine change. But who will be buying anything but EV in the late 20s.. The Jag Ipace is a cracker. Stunning in both looks and performance but prices start at £62K........ Not many can afford that no matter how good the car is. Ive read about the pollution caused by the production of the battery’s so are we going to end up no better off ? Will we have the infrastructure to cope with the production of enough electricity to charge all these cars and vans ? I doubt it. |
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Post by anchorman on Mar 9, 2021 21:00:45 GMT
As far as I know, petrol and diesel cars are not banned from 2030, only the sale of them so you could in theory buy one and run it. However, things could change by then.
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