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Post by unclebob on Dec 5, 2021 21:15:49 GMT
Well that was a race not to miss !
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Post by philip42h on Dec 6, 2021 0:14:07 GMT
Well that was a race not to miss ! Rather more carnage than race-craft I fear ... ? |
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fireballbob
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Post by fireballbob on Dec 6, 2021 13:06:00 GMT
Well that was a race not to miss ! reminded me of watching Banger racing , plough lane Wimbledon in the 70's. |
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Post by clarki on Dec 6, 2021 13:39:12 GMT
I'm not really a fan of either tbh - would like Hamilton to get title No.8 so the record belong to a Brit, rather than a German. But wanted Verstappen to win this year, just for a change/to spice it up really. But as much as i've applauded Max over the last few years as the only real driver taking it to Lewis, in 99% of the time an inferior car, he overstepped the mark yesterday IMO. Anyway, 1 race to go, all square, just what a neutral wants  |
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Post by charliefarlie on Dec 6, 2021 14:56:32 GMT
Haven’t had chance to see the race yet. I was lewises biggest fan till his head got so big. The members of his team are forced to take the knee or they get sacked. I can’t like a bully like that no way never…… I tend to go for the underdog anyway. If it’s the same team or individual winning all the time there’s no point watching as there is obviously no competition….
👍👍👍
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Post by unclebob on Dec 6, 2021 18:15:46 GMT
Next race, If there is a chance of one or the other ..or both getting involved with knocking each other off the track….that should be Instant disqualification and that would hand the world championship to Bottas 👍🏻👍🏻
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Post by charliefarlie on Dec 6, 2021 18:50:08 GMT
The decision makers are flawed to say the least. They will decide who wins not the drivers. F1 is in complete dissaray.
Hamilton ignored or didn’t see waved yellow flags in qualifying… The same happened to Max two GPs ago and he got a 5 place grid penalty. Lewis gets nothing.
Lewis goes into the back of Max and it’s Maxs fault……
You couldn’t make this crap up.
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Post by Hoovie on Dec 6, 2021 22:07:00 GMT
I am all for fair racing. which is why Versatappen doesn't deserve to win.
He is too much of a Senna. I don't care how good Senna was - and many think he was apparently the best ever? - as he was a dirty driver and that undoes anything good he did.
You don't get a free pass for cheating just because people find you entertaining. If Verstappen was a Basketball player, he would be in the Harlem Globetrotters.
I am sure Verstappen will be watching this training video .... https://youtu.be/IbeBnn0Ufsc
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Post by charliefarlie on Dec 7, 2021 8:59:35 GMT
So we have racing without having racing…… Max at least serves his penalties without the constant bleating which is all we hear from Lewis. He ( Lewis) once again went into back of Max who had been ordered to slow to let him past. Screaming “ Brake test “ etc…. What had happened as far as I can tell is the message got to Max but not to Lewis and that ain’t Maxes fault.
Lewis had the straight to realise he was closing fast to Max…. Yet he took no avoiding action till he was to close and too late. This is a 7 times world champ… He then starts bleating “ he brake tested me” IF that is the case then Max should be disqualified from that race and his points withdrew…. If it’s not then Lewis should have the manners to apologise and be given a penalty. He won’t of course he’s to up himself and ignorant.
Why was Max told to allow Lewis by for the second time ? That for me got a bit confusing but it seemed that having let Lewis by he immediately overtook him which in no way is against the rules….. As I said above you really couldn’t make it up…..
Lastly Max got a five place penalty for not seeing a yellow flag…. His lights on the steering wheel were green and the marshal with the flag hidden. Lewis did the same thing in practice which is where Max got penalised. Yet Lewis as yet has got away with it. We cannot have sport with one rule for one team and another for a different team. Anyone who doesent get that doesent understand what sport is about.
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Post by widge on Dec 7, 2021 10:29:13 GMT
So we have racing without having racing…… Max at least serves his penalties without the constant bleating which is all we hear from Lewis. He ( Lewis) once again went into back of Max who had been ordered to slow to let him past. Screaming “ Brake test “ etc…. What had happened as far as I can tell is the message got to Max but not to Lewis and that ain’t Maxes fault. Lewis had the straight to realise he was closing fast to Max…. Yet he took no avoiding action till he was to close and too late. This is a 7 times world champ… He then starts bleating “ he brake tested me” IF that is the case then Max should be disqualified from that race and his points withdrew…. If it’s not then Lewis should have the manners to apologise and be given a penalty. He won’t of course he’s to up himself and ignorant. Why was Max told to allow Lewis by for the second time ? That for me got a bit confusing but it seemed that having let Lewis by he immediately overtook him which in no way is against the rules….. As I said above you really couldn’t make it up….. Lastly Max got a five place penalty for not seeing a yellow flag…. His lights on the steering wheel were green and the marshal with the flag hidden. Lewis did the same thing in practice which is where Max got penalised. Yet Lewis as yet has got away with it. We cannot have sport with one rule for one team and another for a different team. Anyone who doesent get that doesent understand what sport is about. From what I can make out lewis didn't want to overtake becouse they were about to enter a DRS zone, and although there is nothing in the rules about where you let someone past, it does seem a bit mad to be able let sombody pass becouse you were in the wrong just at a point that you are given a massive power advantage allowing you to overtake them easily. But I agree with Charlie for max to get a penalty for lewis running into the back of him when lewis had an easy overtake available is ridiculous. |
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Post by philip42h on Dec 7, 2021 10:53:57 GMT
So we have racing without having racing…… Max at least serves his penalties without the constant bleating which is all we hear from Lewis. He ( Lewis) once again went into back of Max who had been ordered to slow to let him past. Screaming “ Brake test “ etc…. What had happened as far as I can tell is the message got to Max but not to Lewis and that ain’t Maxes fault. Lewis had the straight to realise he was closing fast to Max…. Yet he took no avoiding action till he was to close and too late. This is a 7 times world champ… He then starts bleating “ he brake tested me” IF that is the case then Max should be disqualified from that race and his points withdrew…. If it’s not then Lewis should have the manners to apologise and be given a penalty. He won’t of course he’s to up himself and ignorant. Why was Max told to allow Lewis by for the second time ? That for me got a bit confusing but it seemed that having let Lewis by he immediately overtook him which in no way is against the rules….. As I said above you really couldn’t make it up….. Lastly Max got a five place penalty for not seeing a yellow flag…. His lights on the steering wheel were green and the marshal with the flag hidden. Lewis did the same thing in practice which is where Max got penalised. Yet Lewis as yet has got away with it. We cannot have sport with one rule for one team and another for a different team. Anyone who doesent get that doesent understand what sport is about. From what I can make out lewis didn't want to overtake becouse they were about to enter a DRS zone, and although there is nothing in the rules about where you let someone past, it does seem a bit mad to be able let sombody pass becouse you were in the wrong just at a point that you are given a massive power advantage allowing you to overtake them easily. But I agree with Charlie for max to get a penalty for lewis running into the back of him when lewis had an easy overtake available is ridiculous. Telemetry showed that Max hit the brakes at that point, and that's what he got the penalty for. I suspect that was simply to force Lewis past just before the DRS zone (as above) rather than as a deliberate attempt to cause an accident etc. but the stewards noted the 'excessive' braking at that point. Quite why Lewis hadn't already steamed past at that point is anyone's guess. One of the theories was that Lewis thought that Max was slowing for yet another Yellow Flag period and didn't want to get done for passing under yellows; another is that he didn't want to pass before the DRS point. Who knows ... So the rule that allows an illegal pass, followed by strategic use of the DRS zone to effectively retain the position after giving the place back, needs to be altered. I'd favour an automatic drive through to resolve the situation - hopefully, that would make drivers a little more wary of breaking the sporting rules. But to Charlie's original point - it was a pretty rubbish race as a race ... Occon did well though. And, if you accept that F1 is a sport in which the fastest car with a decent driver should win, then we had the right result - the Mercedes was the fastest race car on that circuit and Lewis is still a decent driver. Which sets-up an interesting final deciding race of the season - they couldn't have scripted it better. It will be interesting to see whether the matter is settle by fair and sporting racing on track or in the sand/barriers. |
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Post by charliefarlie on Dec 7, 2021 11:42:30 GMT
Where a driver chooses to let another past is up to the driver to decide. Any clever driver will choose the most advantageous place to do it….. So long as it’s within the rules it’s fine. It did make for an exciting period in the race which F1 has needed for a very long time.
Red Bull have asked/demanded that the FIA look into Lewises infringement of the rules re the yellow flag he either missed or ignored during Saturdays qualifying….. He did more or less exactly the same as max did in practice for a GP something like 3 weeks ago.
The FIA choose not to apply the penalty to Max until just before the start of the following GP…So as they did that to Max then if they are treated equal Lewis will get his penalty for doing exactly the same as Max applied this coming weekend.
It fairly unusual to get two drivers breaking the same rules in virtually identical as far as the rules go situation….. Let’s hope the the FIA apply the same equal penalty to one driver as they did to the other. Cos if they don’t it’s unfair at best and a fiddle at worst.
People including me have complained in previous years that F1 has or had become boring. That’s not the case right now. Let’s hope it doesent get destroyed by those who are the biggest influence in F1 and I don’t mean the drivers .
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Post by Hoovie on Dec 7, 2021 13:02:17 GMT
The way Max weaves around (and which is not allowed but he still does and is renowned for it), of course a following driver will not automatically go past as all it takes is a sideswipe and they are both off.
He is an extremely cynical driver and he clearly slammed the brakes on to try and take advantage of the DRS line.
This way of giving a place back being timed to coincide with the front driver waiting until just before the DRS is quite common and it is something that should be dealt with better in the rules.
All these armchair experts without the detailed telementry should beat in mind when all the info available was evaluated by the stewards after the race, and those stewards including people who have been there, done that, Vertappen got a further penalty over and above what was given during the race.
It didn't change anything materially, but it confirms just who was primarily at fault.
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Post by philip42h on Dec 7, 2021 13:07:28 GMT
On Lewis and the yellow flag incident (which I had missed entirely), Auto Sport reports:
So, in this case it wouldn't appear that Lewis did anything wrong at all (and, possibly, that Red Bull are just making mischief)
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Post by jasehutch on Dec 7, 2021 15:08:24 GMT
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